SD Critical Mass Coffee Shop Discussion TONIGHT!
Posted By Thomas Bahde on September 21, 2009
This is late notice, but hopefully not too late for a good turnout to discuss an important issue.
From new local bicycling blog Bic Control:
Please come out to this informal, friendly coffeeshop discussion on how to keep CM positive and purposeful.
Do you have ideas? Bring them. Positivity? Bring it. Reservations/concerns? Let’s talk it out. Passion? Bring it. A voice? Use it. Just wanna listen? That’s fine. Constructive solutions? Bring them all. This Monday. And help keep our Critical Mass ride healthy for years to come.
If you’re all about SDCM come out, embrace community, and discuss ways to improve our ride.
Dialogue can only make SDCM better.
This Monday, September 19, 2009 @ 7pm
Rebecca’s Coffeeshop in South Park neighborhood of center-city San Diego.
3015 Juniper St.
Be there.
Loving the South Park bike-culture. What a great neighborhood!
Bike culture is great, as long as it isn’t harmful to the rest of us. Critical Mass, is more harmful than good. Breaking laws en masse is still breaking laws.
Hi Michael,
Your statement that ‘Critical Mass, is more harmful than good’ is simply your own theory.
You must have done some research to support such a theory. Would you mind sharing with readers what type of research you’ve done? How many Critical Mass rides in San Diego have you been on? Or, have you simply employed an armchair-quarterback’s analysis?
There’s a reason that Critical Mass is by far the most popular and fastest growing monthly-bicycle event in San Diego. CM simply dwarfs any other ride in turnout. There is not even another monthly bike-event in SD that is a fraction as popular. There is a reason for this. The reason is that people enjoy CM. They enjoy being out and about on a Friday night; sharing the evening with others; making friends and meeting new people; being active and saving money; celebrating bicycling and sustainability, all while exploring new areas of SD.
Your 3rd sentence, ‘Breaking laws en masse is still breaking laws,’ leads me to believe you’ve employed an armchair-quarterback’s perspective on CM. If you’ve actually been on the 1,300-person ride you’d realize that if every person stopped at every single stop sign, the ride would actually be more dangerous than simply rolling everyone through, assuming that it is done when safe to enter the intersection and also assuming that corkers are thanking motorists for waiting. If you stopped at every sign w/ that many people, the biggest hazard would be bike-on-bike collisions, trainwrecks, and broken frames. It’s simply not feasible. This is why the police escort the ride and cork the intersections for CM. But from an armchair-quarterback’s perspective it’s much easier to say ‘stop at all signs. period,’ all while waiving the “no-no” finger.
My first concern on two-wheels is safety. And sometimes, on large group rides, it’s safer to keep rolling through, assuming that every motorist in the intersection sees the group and assuming that riders are communicating with one another and other motorists.
You should come out this Friday and experience the ride for yourself.
Ride safe.
Zero-emissions: I transport myself without creating emissions too!
I completely agree with you. My first CM was in San Diego and it was the most fun I ever had on a bike. I can’t imagine what would happen if that group rode every where everyday.
I’ve stopped riding CM because of my night blindness, but am planning on buying some good quality lights and coming out for a ride again.
So, breaking the law is ok as long as everyone else is doing it? How does that help us exactly? All the motorist will see are a bunch of people on bicycles blocking their travel, running lights and signs. Motorists, while too many are ignorant of the laws protecting cyclists, at least aren’t blocking the roads. Clogging them perhaps, but not blocking the path of travel. Again, how is CM helping us exactly?
As to myself, I ride far more than most out there. Not bragging, just fact. More riders actually obeying traffic laws would go much farther than a bunch disobeying them. Now, if the police are blocking intersections, that does change things somewhat, but not by a whole heck of a lot. Beyond a group ride, how is CM helping the rest of us?
I can also go out riding and celebrate bicycling, meet new people, and such, without pissing off a bunch of motorists.
I might also ask, where in the California Vehicle Code does it state that groups are allowed to run lights/stop signs? Anything else is simply justifying breaking the law. Which, mind you, the motorist that runs you over as a result, will use against you.
How would you feel if perhaps a group of motorists did the same thing that CM does? What about a group of motorcycles?
If we, as a group, expect motorists to obey the law and to have the law protect us when we need it, it would be rather hypocritical to think that it doesn’t apply to us, and that we could break it when it suited us.
I’ve been dissapointed with CM for a while now, pretty much following the Black Friday mall ride, and am very interested if anything productive came out of this meeting (I was unable to attend). Any reports from the meeting? Any new strategies or methods?
Bic Control has a write-up and summary of the discussion:
http://biccontrol.blogspot.com/2009/09/sdcm-coffeeshop-discussion-positive-fun.html
Sam,
That’s great that you’re also a zero-emissions commuter!
‘I completely agree with you. My first CM was in San Diego and it was the most fun I ever had on a bike.’
That’s quite a statement! Most fun ever, huh? I’m glad that you had an amazing time at CM. It’s quite a celebratory experience that brings cyclists in SD together. Even just coming together at the fountain and socializing, networking, and talking about bike issues in-person on a monthly basis is a unique, awesome experience and great opportunity for meaningful cyclist-on-cyclist dialogue.
I wish people like Michael Ballard would actually experience the ride first-hand before making such claims as ‘Critical Mass is more harmful than good.’ I suppose it is easier to be an armchair-quarterback than to conduct actual research in a field.
I hope that you find some high-quality powerful lights that will allow you to ride CM again. Nite-rider has been making extremely powerful lights for awhile. I’d recommend checking them out.
Michael Ballard,
Since you’ve avoided each of my questions in regards to your level of real, in-person experience with CM, it’s safe to assume that you have never participated in a CM ride in SD.
In academia, your unsubstantiated claim would not hold water. You have done little to no in-person primary research that your readers can detect.
A San Diego Critical Mass-hater whose never participated in a San Diego Critical Mass ride, is like a “professional” City-employed Bike Planner who does not ride a bike–both have little to no idea what they’re talking about.
Nevertheless, I will respond to your claims. But the dialogue will be limited–mainly, on your part–because there is no indication that you have sufficient experience riding in large group rides on city streets. And in this debate, that is a must.
Here’s what I said on 9/23:
‘If you’ve actually been on the 1,300-person ride you’d realize that if every person stopped at every single stop sign, the ride would actually be more dangerous than simply rolling everyone through, assuming that it is done when safe to enter the intersection and also assuming that corkers are thanking motorists for waiting. If you stopped at every sign w/ that many people, the biggest hazard would be bike-on-bike collisions, trainwrecks, and broken frames. It’s simply not feasible. This is why the police escort the ride and cork the intersections for CM.’
Rather than address the questions I initially presented, so that we can each learn a little bit more about each others experience in large group rides so that we can actually get somewhere in this debate, you began your response w/ the following question:
‘So, breaking the law is ok as long as everyone else is doing it?’
Michael, my first concern on a bicycle is safety. If a situation arises where ‘breaking the law’ puts me in a safer situation, then I will ‘break’ a law. Critical Mass is a special event. There are some cases (such as the safely-proceed issue (through signs)) where the norms are somewhat different than day-to-day norms. On Mass, generally speaking, once the Mass safely enters the intersection it’s safer to continue through the intersection as a collective entity. Having people randomly stop in the middle of a flowing Mass creates trainwrecks, bike-on-bike collisions, potential human injuries, and broken frames. It’s like putting a stop sign in the middle of a freeway. Or like stopping a parade at every cross street. In both those cases, and in Mass, it’s more feasible and safer to keep the group flowing. And if you experience several rides for yourself–as anyone making such a claim as yours should do–then you’d probably agree.
Michael, the law is not perfect. New laws are constantly being written and modified. I wish that there was a law that would allow a group of cyclists to continue through an intersection (when safely entered, of course) as a single entity. Maybe, when lawmakers start to implement new, creative ways to encourage cycling and group cycling they’ll be more lenient on zero-emissions commuters. The State of Idaho has a rolling-stop law as you may know. I support this law and I would like to see it implemented in California. It would allow cyclists to utilize the momentum of our hilly topography to get around more efficiently.
How does CM help cycling you ask?
San Diego Critical Mass is a monthly-event that gets people interested in cycling. I’ve met many people who want to get a bicycle to just ride in CM. They often say to me “I want to do that! It looks fun! Where can I get an affordable bike?” Many motorists and random passerbys ask “What is this? How do I be apart of this? Where does it meet? How do I get informed about these rides?” It’s something fun to do on a bike. It’s something to look forward to and be apart of. Many of those people who want to ride bikes, mainly to be apart of CM, start to ride more often in their day-to-day lives. CM attracts many new cyclists to the art of cycling; and it allows cyclists to be apart of a community and to explore areas they wouldn’t normally explore.
As Sam mentioned above, it was the most fun she/he’s ever had on a bicycle.
That’s saying alot.
Michael, I know that from your un-researched, inexperienced, negative, pessimistic, armchair-quarterback perspective all you think SDCM does is ‘block traffic’ and ‘break laws.’ In fact, SDCM does good, too. SDCM is about more than those things. It gets new people interested in cycling and it actually gets many (1,300, to be exact) people on bikes riding at least on a monthly-basis and learning about our city’s urban landscape and how the best, most fun way to enjoy it is on two-wheels.
Again, you should experience San Diego’s most popular, monthly bicycle ride for yourself. You may enjoy it. I hope you do.
Ride safe.
Folks – Critical Mass is an act of civil disobedience. That’s why regulations are not followed. Safety, too. And power. No city has been able to stop it – a rolling protest, so the do their best (and usually very effectively) to manage it from a safety perspective. Of course, civil disobedience is most effective when most participants are on the same page. This is mostly the case during CM rides. Its easy to focus on the drunks and the scenesters. Most people seem to be out there because they’re tired of getting honked at for following the law. I might add that I am a big dork who follows the vehicle code (even using hand signals) and that my first CM was San Francisco in ’97.
I have never participated in CM, nor do I plan to, for all the reasons I have so far outlined. I actually have principles and try to follow them. I stop for red lights and stop signs. I do it for safety. I do it because it is the way it is supposed to be done. Why would I want to go against them?
Great, people have fun. Fun can be also had without it being at the expense of others. The problem I see, you get people interested, but in doing so show them that bicycles don’t have to follow the rules. You should be encouraging riders to follow the rules, to ride safely, not flaunt them. That is the problem I have with CM. It presents a generally negative image of bicycling. Civil disobedience is one thing, but how about doing something positive with that as well? What are you protesting? Bicycles DO have the rights to the road. Better education for motorists and bicyclists would go much further than just a group ride that violates much of those rules. Again, by trying to justify breaking laws for whatever reason you come up with, you’re still breaking laws. In the case of CM, it is creating its own problem by its size. Mind you, the drivers that don’t seem to think we have the rights to the roadway, will also try to justify breaking the law as it suits them. It really makes you no different than they are.
You can call me whatever you wish. I’m not perfect, no one is. Neither am I avoiding your questions. At least present a better image for the rest of us. Try showing the motorists that we aren’t an adversary, but with them.
I would also add that stopping at stop signs and red lights hasn’t been a problem for me. Momentum and efficiency should NEVER go before SAFETY. Getting there is NEVER that important. Neither is keeping a group together that important. You’re not going to win me over in this one. Neither do I intend to win you over.